Lord Berkeley (Lab)

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for introducing this draft order and the many noble Lords who have expressed concern. The noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, have both set out their concerns, which I share because I live in the Isles of Scilly. Although the Minister briefly mentioned the Isle of Wight, the comments made about the difficulty of getting to and from, and living in, the islands—I include Northern Ireland in that—are well known. We have been fighting the Government for years to try and get some benefit for the Isles of Scilly and Isle of Wight, in some kind of support for transport—which is ships, of course. Although the Scottish Government were clever in sticking with what they have, we have so far failed. Some noble Lords may say, “Well, you’re talking about little baby ferries”—those that go across to the islands I mentioned—whereas this order is at the moment limited to 5,000 tonnes. That is true, and none of the ships that go to the Isles of Scilly, except cruise ships, weigh more than that. However, we are also told by many, and I am sure it is true, that when the European Union reviews all these related regulations it will wish to reduce the limit from 5,000 tonnes to much less, so that could affect the freight and passenger ships to the Isle of Wight and the Isles of Scilly. Let us be clear that, at the moment, the costs of services to these islands are very high. The cost of freight to the Isles of Scilly probably means that it comes out at about four times what you would be paying on the mainland for a bag of cement or a tin of baked beans. It is very serious. The second issue I have with this draft regulation is the timing, as my noble colleague has just mentioned. The timing is quite serious if we are to come up with some alternative means of propulsion. It is fine to say that they can all be electric, and electric ships exist—but not everywhere. In parallel to electric ships, you need a lot of power to ports, but, at the moment, we seem to have a shortage of power. We have had many debates here about the high-power demands for AI, railways, buses and everything else like that. To say that ports must have enough power available to service all the ships that are going to come in in two or three months is cloud-cuckoo-land. We are talking just about ferries—nice though it is to talk about ferries to Ireland. Cruise ships have also been mentioned, as have general cargo and container ships. All kinds of different craft that could reach the 5,000 tonnes or less in the future need to know what the future limits are going to be and to assess what they will do in terms of rebuilding, refitting, or whatever. I conclude by asking my noble friend the Minister what information has been given to the industry about the need for and the availability of shore power. I also ask him whether he thinks it would be a good idea to ring-fence some of the shore power availability to some of the bigger ports, and whether there is enough generating capacity. I hope my noble friend will be able to tell me that. I support other noble Lords who suggest that this regulation should be delayed until we have much better proof of alignment with the EU and are given a much longer-term feed-in notice so that the industry, be it ports, shipping lines or anyone else, can adapt and avoid being fined, because that is not what we want for this business. I hope also that we can continue to have a good debate and get some exemptions for Northern Ireland, which I fully support, and for the Isles of Scilly and the Isle of Wight.