Lord Jones (Lab)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for her helpful and informative remarks. Skills and training are crucial for Britain, struggling to keep her place in a very competitive global market, and this board is a great and important player in British skilling. It is a good measure and I think that £243 million are involved somewhere in the helpful notes that the department has offered us. I have some questions that I think might be answered by officials. Very briefly, what is the current grand total of construction apprenticeships for the latest year available? Are there graduate apprenticeships in this industry, and in what numbers? Is the department satisfied with its health and safety record, given the nature of the industry that we are considering? I find that this proposal brings memories which I think are relevant to anyone considering the future of this great industry. It was the case that, in the early 1980s, big changes were made in these boards. I recollect that, in the other place, the Secretary of State, James Prior, was helped by a Parliamentary Secretary by the name of Morrison. Time and again, after 10 pm and with three-line Whips, we had orders to abolish board after board—to the point where, although the Opposition of whom I was a part always voted against abolition in this instance, the Government usually had their way. All that was left of these training boards were the great engineering board and the construction industry board. It seems that the start of the problems that Britain now faces around skills and training relates to the decisions taken by the then Government in voting that always happened after 10 pm and went on until midnight. The Government of the day had a good majority, so they got their way. When I was in the other place, I found that builders were very much against what was proposed in having these issues put on them. I found that, in an era of mass unemployment in the early 1980s, it was very obvious that the apprenticeship boards were being closed down. Even the great companies of Courtaulds, BAE and British Steel pretty well decided not to have apprenticeships. The bottom line was: what was to be made if there were to be any chances of what I would call advantages from the great loss to Great Britain and to our young people? If we look back to those years—the late 1970s and, in particular, the early 1980s—there were great problems. I hope that the questions I have asked will be answered before the end of the debate.