Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their contributions, the very tone of which demonstrates how serious these matters are. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, for her congratulations on my appointment. My introduction to being a Minister has been a really easy 24 hours. I hope I speak for all sides of the House when I say that these matters require us to put the protection of our democracy at the forefront—there is nothing more important. As noble Lords have rightly acknowledged, matters of interference, particularly those relating to Parliament and your Lordships’ House, are of the utmost importance to both Houses and the entire nation. They merit careful consideration by the Government, decisive action by Ministers and appropriate scrutiny by Parliament. It is right that the Opposition have the opportunity to scrutinise, to question Ministers in this House and the other place, and to be appropriately briefed on developments, which is why my colleague in the other place, the Security Minister, was on his feet at the Dispatch Box within an hour of the police statement today, and why I am here this evening. The Government have not hesitated to acknowledge the threats China poses to the UK, from cyber espionage operations to foreign interference. The Government are taking robust action to ensure that the UK’s democratic institutions and processes are a hard target for this activity. We will continue to engage with China confidently and pragmatically in areas where engagement is in the UK’s national interests; however, we will never compromise on our national security. Members of your Lordships’ House will appreciate the sensitivity of these issues. Protecting the operational integrity of our police and security services is of the utmost importance. To protect the live police investigation, noble Lords will understand that I am extremely limited in what I can say regarding the specific details of the active case. However, both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness raised a number of questions in their remarks and, while I must be circumspect to avoid any prejudice to legal proceedings, I will seek to address as many of the points that I can now—I will reflect on Hansard if I miss any—within the broader policy points. If I miss anything else, it is because I am unable to address those points, but I will revert to both noble Lords outside. On the specifics that have been raised, I join the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, in thanking our national security staff. They are keeping us safe every single day. As we saw earlier this week with the Statement on Iran, 20 threats were safeguarded by our national security and, in this space, they are working to protect us. I am grateful for it. A number of questions were asked and I hope that I will be able to answer them as they were asked. The noble Baroness, Lady Finn, asked about the steps that we can take as parliamentarians. In the last few minutes, the Lord Speaker has issued an email to all Members of your Lordships’ House reminding them of the security that is available. I urge noble Lords to look at the guidance that was issued last year and that has been reissued today about their own security. If your Lordships have any concerns about your work as parliamentarians or who is contacting you and why, please contact the Parliamentary Security Department. The noble Baroness, Lady Finn, highlighted the fact that, because of the political nature of what is discussed, it may be about events here or elsewhere associated with different organisations. If anybody is approached by the organisation, I urge them to be fully supportive. I assure Members of your Lordships’ House, as I was challenged on, that the Government make a commitment, and I make it from this Dispatch Box, to work to deliver a prosecution with our independent prosecution service, if it makes that decision. On the points raised on the Chinese embassy, the Government have been clear throughout that the planning decision was for the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government to make in an independent, quasi-judicial capacity. We are confident that the decision is lawful and it would be inappropriate for me to comment further at this time given the ongoing action. With regard to China as a threat, which is fundamental to everything that we have been discussing, the Government fully recognise that China poses a series of threats to UK national security, from cyber attacks, foreign interference and espionage targeting our democratic institutions to transnational repression of Hong Kongers. Yet we are also alive to the fact that China presents the UK with opportunities as the world’s second-largest economy and the UK’s third-largest trading partner. Not engaging is no choice at all. That is why the Prime Minister discussed a series of UK national security concerns with President Xi during his recent visit and agreed a new joint law enforcement pact to disrupt the supply of equipment used by people-trafficking gangs operating in the English Channel. We will therefore continue to develop a consistent and pragmatic approach to economic engagement without compromising on our national security, as every other member of the G7 rightly does. On the FIRS, a genuinely important point that has been discussed many times in your Lordships’ House, no decision has yet been made in relation to specifying China on the enhanced tier of the foreign influence registration scheme. I have made it clear multiple times to Parliament and to Members of your Lordships’ House that we are carefully looking at whether other countries should be added to the enhanced tier. We keep specifications on the enhanced tier under constant review to ensure that we are protecting the safety and interests of the UK. Any changes will be announced to Parliament in the usual way. Adding countries to the enhanced tier requires the consideration of a broad range of interests, including but not limited to security considerations. It is important that we get it right. With regard to the comments on foreign interference from the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, this is at the heart of why we are here. It is and always will be an absolute priority to protect the UK against foreign interference, and the UK has a strong record of responding robustly to state threats. Through the National Security Act 2023, the security services and law enforcement agencies have the tools that they need to deter, detect and disrupt modern-day state threats, as they have done today. The Government are delivering the counter-political interference and espionage plan, which includes a protective security communications campaign. As part of this, the National Protective Security Authority published guidance for those working in democratic institutions in October last year. The plan also includes exploring how to strengthen legislation and regulation and work to degrade the use of proxies. There is also ongoing cross-government work to address academic interference, information threats and transnational repression. I welcome the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, referenced the report on China. The work of the ISC is incredibly important in this space and I am grateful for the work of the noble Lord, Lord Beamish, who is taking on huge projects at this point. I appreciate what has been said about the China audit that was incorporated into the security and defence review. The noble Lord is right that there are some things that now need to follow on from the SDR and we continue to make sure that that happens. We need to have a national conversation about all the threats that we face so that people understand what is in front of them and they can protect themselves and protect us all at the same time. The noble Lord made a very important point about think tanks and universities, some of which will be addressed in forthcoming legislation. I look forward to discussing it when we are looking at the Representation of the People Bill. We are also awaiting the recommendations of the Rycroft review, which will touch on some of these issues. The timing of the legislation is such that we seek to be able to incorporate some of his recommendations, if needed, in that legislation. It is important—and noble Lords will appreciate this—that when I was last at this Dispatch Box talking about these issues I highlighted the fact that the vice-chancellors had all been invited to a meeting with the Security Minister for a proper briefing on how they needed to protect themselves. We are repeating that exercise with think tanks to make sure that they can also protect themselves in this space. I have presented and did present at the tail-end of last year the counter-political interference and espionage action plan to help disrupt and deter spying from states such as China. It included removal of surveillance equipment, which has been done, and additional funding for new and bespoke sovereign IT capabilities. The plan also reminded every one of us, I hope, of our own responsibilities to protect both ourselves and each other, because there are people who wish us ill. We need to make sure that we strive together to deliver for the people of the United Kingdom and to protect this very important institution.