Earl Howe (Con)

My Lords, this has been a very useful debate with some powerful contributions, but I should like to turn first to the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey. It was reported last week in the Times that seven EU member states have formally expressed concern that the Government’s proposed generational smoking ban might breach the Windsor Framework. The Minister said last week that the provisions of the Bill intended to apply to Northern Ireland are compatible with the United Kingdom’s obligations under the Windsor Framework. However, these external concerns plainly have not gone away. In a previous meeting, I was grateful to the noble Baroness and her officials for discussing the Technical Regulations Information System—or TRIS—procedure in respect of liaising with the European Commission and those EU countries that have raised objections. She explained that, in the Government’s opinion, the TRIS procedure is about consultation and will not lead to any decisions that would be binding on the UK Government. Can the Minister clarify if my understanding of the Government’s position is correct in that regard? Will she also update the House on discussions with the European Commission and with representatives of member states that have raised their concerns? Can she also say whether any formal objections have been lodged through the Windsor Framework structures, including the joint committee? In general on this issue, we see a rather polarised position, with the tobacco industry on one side and ASH and the Government on the other, so I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify whether the Government have sought or obtained any independent external legal advice on compatibility and whether they are confident that the measures would withstand a challenge in the event of infraction proceedings or dispute resolution. Following on from that, what contingency planning, if any, has been undertaken should a divergence issue arise in relation to Northern Ireland? Let me turn to Amendments 202, 205 and 206, which relate, in their several ways, to reviewing the effects and outcomes of the Bill as an Act. I am supportive of them but especially grateful for Amendment 205, which responds to the plea put forward by a number of noble Lords in Committee that this far-reaching Bill, whose real-life effects on the health of the population must inevitably lie in the realm of uncertainty, merits close review at a point when we are in a position to assess those effects realistically. Hence, I particularly welcome subsection (2) of the new clause proposed by the amendment, which refers to assessing the impact of the Act. As my noble friend Lord Lansley argued persuasively, the review needs to drill down into the granular detail and the substance of how smokers and non-smokers are behaving in response to the implementation of the different strands of policy. Having said that, I very much support the ideas contained in my noble friend Lord Young’s Amendment 202, for all the reasons that he gave. A review within four to seven years, as the Government have proposed, considering both economic and health outcomes and involving the devolved Governments, is a sensible safeguard as far as it goes. However, a road map and milestones, which both government and Parliament could follow and monitor along the way, would add considerable value. I am sorry that it appears that this is not an idea that the Government are willing to take further.