Lord West of Spithead (Lab)

My Lords, how nice it is to be talking about ships. I do not agree totally with the noble and gallant Lord about the perception of us within NATO. However, maybe its perception should be that, because our capabilities have gone down to such an extent. Indeed, there is a sort of sense of déjà vu because, sitting over there for years and years, I have been saying to the Opposition, who were then in government, that we were reducing capabilities far too fast and not really keeping them, and that is a worry. I would like to come back to the actual underwater tapestry and defence of that. I do not know whether the Minister has visited the Joint Maritime Operations Centre in Fort Southwick, but, if not, he should do. It has an ability now to co-ordinate a view of where all Russian and other ships are throughout our territorial waters, the exclusive economic zone and beyond, and then take executive action to do things about it. The examples given by the Secretary of State of actions taken recently against the craft are a very good tactical example of what can be done; I think it surprised Putin, not least because they know how few submarines we have got, and for one of them to pop up like that was a bit of a shock for them. There is no doubt it was the right sort of action to be carried out. Could I ask the Minister whether he will go and visit the Joint Maritime Operations Centre? It is important and actually ties together all the things that the noble Lord, Lord Mountevans, was discussing. Responsibility for this is beyond just the Navy, which can co-ordinate it. There is a whole series of other departments, and we need to ensure that they all work together.