Baroness Fraser of Craigmaddie (Con)

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for opening this after-lunch debate and outlining that an alternative is possible. I will speak to my Amendments 835 and 868, which I added to this group because they seek to ensure that an assisted dying service is clearly separated from NHS provision, and that therefore there is clear transparency around funding for the taxpayer. Such a service could be set up and funded privately or charitably, in the same way that we currently provide and fund care provision or hospice services. Such a service would be clearly separate from the NHS but could operate, potentially, in partnership. The NHS could commission services if it so chose. It would have to share data and patient records and there would need to be a system for the regulation of such services. Proposed new subsection (3) in Amendment 835 would require regulations on the definition of “privately funded organisations”. If such a service were to work in partnership with the NHS—as many hospices and third-sector service delivery organisations currently do—then further proposed new paragraphs would require the establishment of the means through which NHS providers can commission privately funded organisations to provide services, the data sharing arrangements to ensure the necessary sharing of records, and, most importantly, a system for regulating the provision of services by privately funded organisations. Some noble Lords have expressed concern about the use of “private organisations” in my amendment. However, I point to the kaleidoscope of entities that currently provide health and social care already—some of which my noble friend Lord Moylan just mentioned. Many people have made a profit from care homes, many charities provide health services instead of the NHS, and private hospital care coexists with NHS provision, often with the same consultant working in both. I am a Conservative, so I do not think that making a profit per se is a bad thing; I accept, however, that making excessive profit out of death and dying is not particularly morally acceptable, hence the need for robust and transparent regulation of any services. As I have said before in Committee, this is an area where the supporters of the Bill and those who support the principle of legalising assisted dying have missed a trick. I agree with my noble friend Lord Moylan in posing the question of why assisted dying should be taxpayer funded. It is essential to ask the sponsors of the Bill at this stage how the establishment of an assisted dying model would impact our current healthcare systems and healthcare professionals. We know that the Secretary of State for Health has stated that there is currently no budget for such a service, and Stephen Kinnock, the Minister of State for Health and Social Care, who voted for the Bill, has said that the Government will have to reprioritise spending to fund assisted dying. Therefore, it appears that funds will have to come out of the health department’s existing budget. Stephen Kinnock also stated that, as it stands, the Bill includes the potential for the provision of assisted dying services privately, as well as free on the NHS. Therefore, in this group of amendments, we are asking the sponsors to ascertain what they intend. We are also asking how the Government feel about the requirement to reprioritise NHS budgets. What services would then be deprioritised? The Bill currently going through the Scottish Parliament makes it explicit that assisted dying would, if that Bill is passed in Scotland, be delivered by the NHS. However, this Bill is silent. The Scottish Bill is accompanied by a financial memorandum which outlines the cost to a range of public bodies of the implementation of providing assisted dying—the majority of which will fall on the NHS and cover things such as the cost of anticipated clinician hours, staff training, the costs of the substance provided to end life, both the storage and monitoring of it, data collection, support and navigation services, and many others. All are extra costs the NHS will be expected to bear. Do the supporters of the Bill, as my noble friend Lord Moylan referred to, expect the service to be cost neutral, as referred to in the financial memorandum in Scotland? The Scottish Bill identifies “unutilised healthcare” savings due to the obvious but rather unsettling statement that every person who has an assisted death will not require further care. I accept that saving health and care costs is not the motivation of the sponsors of this Bill. However, there are many concerns expressed by individuals and organisations that implementing the Bill will have real cost implications and necessitate clinicians diverting time and resources from their already stretched patients to support assisted dying. We need to find a balance between what the Bill sets out to provide and what is best for our current health and care services. Creating a service that is separate from the NHS, as many hospices and care homes already are, would ensure such a solution. The NHS is not a solution to all issues. I come to this from my experience in the third sector, where the medicalised approach to care and service provision, as would be delivered by the NHS, often does not lead to optimal outcomes for the patient—whereas a demedicalised social model can often be preferable. Hospices provide holistic care, not just medical care, and include support for emotional, social, practical, psychological and spiritual needs, as well as support for the person’s family and carers. Hospice teams may include doctors, nurses and healthcare assistants, but also social workers, therapists, counsellors, chaplains and trained volunteers. Is this not what the Bill’s sponsors want for terminally ill adults?