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As a first step, we have to get the figures down to a level within the capacity of the prison estate. As at the noble Baroness, Lady Newlove, pointed out, that cannot be achieved by building alone—not least because the prison building programme is delayed by intractable planning delays, inevitably, and the lengthy time needed for prison construction. If you work out the figures, it is even then quite clear that the most optimistic proposals for prison building cannot meet the projected rise in prison demand.