Lord Jackson of Peterborough (Con)

My Lords, I am disappointed by the somewhat discordant tone of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, with respect to my noble and learned friend on the Front Bench, who made some sensible points. We all agree that children should not be warehoused through crime academies, we all agree that they should be well educated and we all believe in the concept of rehabilitation, but there has to be a limit on the liberal and permissive policy in the criminal justice system. I had the privilege of serving on the British Transport Police Authority for four years, and one of our key areas of concern was county lines. Without proper monitoring and without the possible sanction of a custodial sentence, what is the sanction to prevent criminals engaging children and young people in drugs and a life of crime going into the future if there is not the sanction of a custodial sentence for those young people? Is there not a risk that these reforms may result in more young people being drawn into that lifestyle? Is that not something that the Government should seriously take into account?