Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)

My Lords, I thank those who have engaged in today’s debate on the Bill. I have listened carefully and with much interest to the excellent points raised across your Lordships’ House. I will attempt to respond to as many questions and concerns as possible, and, where I am not able to, I will follow up in writing. As the noble Lord, Lord Moylan says, my contribution is likely to be a little disjointed, even though this Bill is constrained as to its effect. Like the noble Lord, I have learned much from many of the contributions today. I should start with consumer protection, because virtually every noble Lord who spoke on that aspect was, I think, supportive of the intention of the Bill. A number of noble Lords including the noble Baronesses, Lady Grey-Thompson, Lady Ramsey of Wall Heath, Lady Dacres of Lewisham, Lady Thornton, Lady Gill and Lady Griffin of Princethorpe, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, spoke passionately and with great strength of feeling about the inadequacy of some of the actuality that people have faced, particularly if they are disabled, whether they are physically disabled, neurodivergent or have sensory issues about air travel. The Government have brought this forward because we do not accept that that is inevitable. The noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, was kind enough to say that he knows that I have had previous encounters with this in the Bus Services Bill and the passenger railways services Bill. In this circumstance, there is clear evidence that the Government need to take action and that the action we need to take is to enable the Civil Aviation Authority to deal with this subject much more easily in future than it has been able to in the past. The fact that it has managed only one prosecution, and that that has taken four years, is evidence that its existing powers are not sufficient. That is why we are bringing this forward. We are particularly grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, for chairing the task and finish group. I will write to her with a current update on where those 16 conclusions have got to. We are determined to do something about this. Access to aviation should be for everybody, not just for people who are physically and mentally fit. I will not go through in greater detail the experiences of noble Lords who have spoken, other than to say that there ought to be real redress about all this in a way that there currently is not. I noted particularly that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, referred to inclusion by design. I will take that away and think about the extent to which the Bill covers this circumstance. We need to make progress on this, because it is unacceptable. The stories of the individuals concerned that we have heard about today and from people who are able to make a noise about their experiences mean that we should make a change. The noble Baroness, Lady Griffin of Princethorpe, asked whether this will apply to airports as well as airlines. The answer is that it will apply to both. There was a question about divergence from former EU protections. We have heard different views today about whether we should be precisely aligned with the EU. Our position enables us to take a view about the extent to which we align with the EU, not foolishly diverging from things that are obviously useful but using the freedoms that we now have to do so. On airspace modernisation, the noble Lord, Lord Harper, asked whether any direction would affect existing rights to be consulted. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, also raised that question. The answer is that anything in this Bill will not affect existing rights to be consulted. That must be right, otherwise the existing procedures would have no effect on airspace modernisation. This is not of itself a measure for expansion; the expansion of capacity in most of the country is limited by runway capacity. The Bill is designed to support the entire aviation sector, helping it to grow and remain competitive for decades to come. Some measures in the Bill will support airport expansion across the UK, such as enabling further reforms to airport slot allocation and supporting airspace modernisation to meet future needs. These are not particular to expansion at Heathrow; they are also needed for the broader objectives raised during this approach. Slot co-ordination cannot increase capacity at an airport, but it can help manage that capacity more effectively. The noble Baroness, Lady Grender, and the noble Earl, Lord Russell, will know—because we discussed it prior to this Second Reading debate—that one of the effects of better airspace modernisation and better utilisation of slots is to reduce delays and pollution by better using airspace, rather than having aircraft circling around. The noble Lord, Lord Kirkhope, raised a question about the single guiding mind. The set-up is now complete, and it is starting work. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, raised the capacity of NATS. We believe that it does have capacity. Notably, the noble Baroness, Lady Foster of Oxton, was very complimentary about the Civil Aviation Authority and NATS. We agree with her; they do a terrific job. It is important that we recognise the CAA as a competent body to do this work. The noble Lords, Lord Barber of Ainsdale, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Kirkhope, raised the question of the engagement of pilots. In that we agree: the people who pilot planes should be consulted about airspace modernisation. The noble Baroness, Lady Antrobus, raised the whole question of drone use for freight, blood, police and the military. This is, of course, one of the main reasons for looking at airspace modernisation and the charging mechanism. These are new uses of airspace; airspace modernisation needs to allow for these uses, and the people who are using the drones need to be appropriately charged. On the question of wider slot reform, the noble Baroness, Lady Foster of Oxton, said that we should tread carefully, and I think we will. The noble Lord, Lord Redwood, said—I am paraphrasing—that nothing will happen for ages. We do have to be careful with some of these measures, and we should do them properly, but not everything will be delayed for ever. Indeed, many people regard the question of airspace modernisation as urgent, and we do too. Going back to consumer protection, I hope we regard that as urgent too; it has been a scandal for far too long. So, not everything in this Bill will take years to do. On airspace modernisation slots, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, gave us a very careful exposition of safety in the operation of aircraft. We should be very careful to make sure that what we and government bodies do in this space is always safe and properly considered. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, raised the question of access to slots at Heathrow for regional flights, about which I know a little through some of my prior work. It is not our intention to interfere with airlines’ commercial decisions, but this Bill will give powers to allow the allocation of slots to be relevant to the evolving context of airlines. On the questions about delegation to the civil aviation safety rules, we acknowledge that we need to be careful with this, and that is why the Secretary of State is retaining powers to direct. However, we also need to be aware that the environment in which we are making aviation safety rules is highly technical and fast-moving. I too was interested to listen to the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, with his experience of business in the Moses Room. We are struggling to keep pace with evolving international standards, and that is why we propose to fix this by placing technical rule-making with the CAA. We will of course listen very carefully indeed to the Delegated Powers Committee when we get its report. I have no doubt at all, bearing in mind the length of time the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, spent on it, that we will have a great deal of discussion about the virtues of doing this. However, we must remember that, in whatever we do here, we have to give this industry the ability to keep pace with international standards so that it can continue, as many noble Lords have remarked, to make its contribution to economic growth. I go back to the previous remarks about the competence of the CAA. It is a good regulator, and it will of course have to be staffed to carry out the functions the Bill seeks to give it. There were some other questions related to delegation to the CAA. As I say, I have no doubt that we will fully discuss that in Committee. Noble Lords raised a number of other questions. The noble Lord, Lord Harper, asked whether the CAA has powers to implement all the options for Heathrow expansion. Our current position is that the CAA has not identified any new powers needed to implement the options that have been put forward. The noble Lord, Lord Davies of Gower, asked about general aviation. This Government support general aviation. They see the connection, particularly with training pilots and so forth, and will continue to maintain their interest in general aviation. They note the importance of general aviation in airspace modernisation and will continue to consult it. The noble Lords, Lord Barber of Ainsdale, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Kirkhope, asked about the future supply of pilots. The Government are mindful of future requirements of the industry. I am sure that we can discuss that in Committee as well. We recognise that to have a healthy industry we need to develop new generations of pilots. More will be said about that, no doubt. The noble Lord, Lord Empey, asked about cabin air quality. This was last looked at in 2022, when a review of current evidence concluded there was no significant cause to think that it caused ill effects. I come to the contribution from the noble Baroness, Lady Grender. First, I welcome her to the Front Bench of the Liberal Democrats. She has made a number of very strong points which we will obviously have to answer in Committee. I think I have dealt with the question about whether this is some surrogate vehicle for airport expansion already, but no doubt we will discuss it further. She expressed concerns about delegated powers, which of course we will discuss, and her points about Eurostar were well made. Separately, this Government are very committed to increasing international travel by rail because, of course, if it can be done, it is an environmentally friendly alternative to air travel. I think that I could better answer many of the points from the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, in Committee because he will make them again, no doubt. I could answer the questions, for example, about Clause 1 and setting out in Clause 2 the details of the powers that are needed. Perhaps I should just answer that question. We have heard so much about the rights of people who use air travel that I do not think it is a bad thing to point out in the Bill what we are trying to deal with regarding the obligations of airports and airlines to provide adequate service to all sorts of customers, including those who are disabled. I cannot quite see how we can conclude that is such a difficult thing to contemplate. I will not keep your Lordships any longer. It has been highly encouraging to see such passion and interest on the topic of aviation, and I have noted the broad consensus on the important role that aviation can and does play in supporting our country and the broad consensus on having a Bill of this sort and on dealing with the subjects in it. Strengthening consumer rights and protections, promoting economic growth and infrastructure provision, and enabling improved safety standards will ensure that the UK retains its appeal as a competitive aviation hub. It has been a privilege to present this Bill to your Lordships’ House for the Second Reading. Once again, I thank all noble Lords who have participated in today’s debate. I welcome the support of the many noble Lords who have spoken in favour of the Bill’s measure, and I look forward to the detailed discussions we will have in Committee.