Lord German (LD)

My Lords, like the noble Baroness, I declare my interest: I am a full member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. I am not a member of the committee that has been dealing with these matters, although I may have voted at some stage on associated matters in the parliamentary assembly. All the contributions that we have heard today have been incredibly powerful and have amplified the need to make sure that this convention is ratified. I pay my tribute to our chair of the International Agreements Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, who has shown a dogged belief in making sure that this Parliament —both Houses—have a proper way to scrutinise international treaties. I am sure that he will continue to fight that corner on behalf of our Parliament to make sure that, when international treaties such as this come before us, we are properly able to investigate, to look in detail and to draw evidence as necessary to make them work. In that respect, we are very grateful to the Government for giving us extra time to look at this one, but we are being very careful at the moment because we do not ask every time—otherwise it can lead a change to the way that the law is in front of us. CRaG is useful but it is not yet totally suitable given how these investigations should take place. I will try to refer to a number of contributions. A number of noble Lords asked why there has been a delay. Paragraph 30 of our report says that the Explanatory Memorandum, which comes with this application, explains that ratification of the convention has been delayed due to “competing priorities”, including Covid-19 and “the UK’s withdrawal from the European Union”. This is the Council of Europe, not the European Union. It has nothing to do with the European Union. Perhaps the Minister can explain why that came in the evidence provided to us from the DCMS because, quite clearly, that confusion between the Council of Europe and the European Union is not going to help us in the future. I will reach the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, on Council of Europe activity at the very end of what I am about to say. As we know, this is to be welcomed, because it is the first international binding agreement on this very important international or transnational issue—whatever you want to call it. The consequence of manipulation is very complicated indeed. One of the advantages that we will have now, of course, is that we are a member of the follow-up committee body called the Group of Copenhagen—the GoC in the parlance. We will have membership of that instead of just being associated with it and not being able to take anything forward. It is worth taking a look at the Council of Europe’s definition of “manipulation”, because many noble Lords have used examples of what it might or cannot mean. Very briefly, the core elements of manipulation are: first, that it should be an intentional arrangement, act or remission; secondly, that whether it is or is not successful, it is an attempt to improperly alter the result or the course of a sports competition; thirdly, that it is to remove all or part of the unpredictable nature of sports competitions; fourthly, that it is to obtain an undue advantage for oneself or for others; fifthly, that the intention of manipulation is there even if the intention is unsuccessful and fails to obtain the undue advantage; and, lastly and importantly, that the undue advantage always has a financial dimension, either directly or as a consequence of the sports competition manipulation. Exploitation of betting markets is just one of the many ways of obtaining an undue financial advantage. We are therefore dealing here with a multiple manipulation consequences issue. It is not straightforward, but it has a context. That context was explained at the beginning by my noble friend Lord Addington, the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and many others. It affects what we might call the integrity of and investment in the industry. I just specify that all the documentation from the Council of Europe has one word on the front to explain what it is about: “trust”. The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, talked about the reduction in trust if this happens. Trust is the password by which it happens. Another thing, which the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, mentioned, is that we are now talking about minor areas of sport as well. She called it the minor league—well, as a supporter, in small amounts of cash, of the Newport County second division football team, I must say that I am very conscious that, as a member of the supporters’ club, my £5 or £10 a month may be going astray. Also, the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, was right that this is about dealing with syndicates. This is a multinational operation. Often, the person being asked to manipulate directly could be in one country, the person seeking and asking that person to manipulate could be in another country, and the person seeking to benefit financially from it could be in yet another country. This is manipulation on a grand scale, and we therefore need to tackle the syndicates. On the binding nature of member states taking action, the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, thankfully raised a question about the reservation; I had difficulty in stating what the ambition was in this reservation of the UK Government. Thankfully, he has asked all the right questions. I look forward to every single answer to the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, so that I may understand the consequence of the reservation, particularly in respect of the matter he raised about France’s expectation, which would be quite different and perhaps more suitable. I wait for judgments to be heard around the Floor. The most important thing is that we are going to have an opportunity to work with a body that has some considerable powers—the follow-up committee—which can formulate proposals to further enhance the establishment, operation and development of national platforms. It has a role in the framing of domestic criminal offences where each party, each country, “shall ensure that its domestic laws enable to criminally sanction manipulation of sports competitions when it involves either coercive, corrupt or fraudulent practices, as defined by its domestic law”. So it will have a broad picture of what is happening in order to ensure—in a useful precedent for what should happen—that domestic laws live up to the intentions that are in a convention of this sort. That is very important. Further to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, about doping, I know from the work that is being done by the follow-up body on the convention that it does not regard doping and manipulation as separate items. They are very closely linked indeed. That combination is talked about in Article 13 of the follow-up committee’s rules—they have to look at all the conventions and all the issues related to these matters, which are in the public domain for Council of Europe members. The signatories, as the noble Lord, Lord Verdirame, said, are much greater than just simply those on the European continent. I am not trying to denigrate what the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, was saying, but it seems to me that it is not an either/or as to who must act in these situations. It is not either Governments, collectively or on their own, or international sporting bodies—it is both. There is a role for both to be playing here. What we are dealing with is perhaps sending the right signals to international governing bodies of sport but at the same time trying to ensure that we have bedded down some very important points in relation to the actions that are possible with those who have signed and ratified this convention. I conclude with a remark that the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, addressed to the noble Lord who is speaking on behalf of the Official Opposition. I do not know what the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, might say about these matters, but I remind him that this is a convention of the Council of Europe. If we were to leave the European Convention on Human Rights, we would no longer be a member of the Council of Europe.