Matthew Pennycook

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Efford. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Luke Akehurst) on securing this important debate, and I thank the other Members who have spoken. I thank the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds), for his kind words; I was actually on the morning rounds speaking about service charge protections for leaseholders, but I was very glad to speak about youth unemployment and a variety of other topics as well. Mr Efford, as will be evident to you, I am not the Minister for Homelessness, Democracy, Communities and Faith, who would ordinarily respond to a debate on this subject; my hon. Friend is currently taking the Building Safety (Remediation of Unsafe Cladding etc) Bill through its Committee stage, and so I am responding in her stead. In the time I have available to me, I intend to provide some further clarity about the Government’s support for the fire and rescue services. Before I do, I make two general points. The first, as several hon. Members have alluded to, is that we should not lose sight of the people at the heart of this debate, namely individuals who have been lost to suicide or those whose suicidal feelings have led them to attempt to take their own lives. Every life lost to suicide is a tragedy, one that leaves a lasting impact on families, friends and communities. I join my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham in paying tribute to the work of the Samaritans. We value their expertise in suicide prevention and we take very seriously their concerns in this area. Secondly, on behalf of the Government, I pay tribute to those firefighters, but also the control room staff and other emergency service personnel, who respond at some of the most difficult moments in people’s lives. The impacts of dealing with the situations that we have discussed this afternoon can stay with them long after an incident has ended, so it is vital that we support them with the skills and confidence they need to help people in crisis and to ensure their own wellbeing. The data, as hon. Members have mentioned, is perfectly clear: firefighters are attending more suicide-related call-outs. In the year to March 2026, fire and rescue services in England attended 3,270 non-fire incidents involving suicide or attempted suicide. That is a 151% increase from 10 years ago. That trend reinforces the importance of firefighters being properly prepared and supported. But the attendance data does not tell us what training those firefighters receive, whether that training was adequate, why attendance has increased or how many individual firefighters have been exposed. The figures therefore provide a strong reason to examine current provision, but they do not demonstrate that existing training is inadequate or that mandatory training is the appropriate solution. Our first step is to work with the sector to understand whether there are any material gaps in existing provision. We will seek the health and wellbeing task and finish group’s advice on current provision, and, taking account of that advice, consider with the National Fire Chiefs Council whether any further sector-led work is needed. If the evidence does identify material gaps, we will consider with the sector what further action would be appropriate. This could include the role of standards and inspection in providing greater assurance, but we do not want to pre-empt what the evidence tells us. The important point to make clear is that any significant new national requirements, funding or assurance arrangements would require separate decisions, because further action will be informed by the evidence and what is practical and proportionate. I am glad the shadow Minister mentioned the need for proportionality. Our position is that work needs to be proportionate and predominantly sector-led unless the Government consciously decide to reprioritise resources. Responsibility for delivery is kept with fire and rescue authorities, while allowing the Government and sector partners to determine whether any further national or sector-led action is justified. I want to make it clear, because this is the central point that my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham and others have put to me, that we are not ruling out mandatory national training in future. However, a nationally mandated requirement would represent a significant departure from the current approach. Fire and rescue authorities are responsible as employers for determining the training that their staff need, and the Government do not currently mandate individual training requirements. Our approach is generally, as I said, to support sector-led improvement, including through funding the National Fire Chiefs Council to target support where it is most needed. We do not currently have evidence that would justify making an exception to that approach for suicide prevention training. In the Government’s view, the evidence does not demonstrate systemic failure across the sector or establish that mandation would be the most effective or proportionate response. However, given the increase in suicide-related incidents, stakeholder concerns and the policing commitment, there is good reason to work with the sector to understand whether there are material gaps in existing provision. As I said, if that work identifies significant and persistent gaps that cannot adequately be addressed through sector-led improvement, guidance or clearer expectations, we will consider what further action is justified by the evidence. But our immediate priority, as I have said, is to establish the evidence. I should just make a point in terms of a comparison with the police because, as part of establishing the evidence base, we will draw on learnings from the police force. Police officers are being given protected time for trauma and suicide prevention training. Although there are important parallels between the services—firefighters and police officers can find themselves responding side by side to traumatic incidents—the policing commitment responds to the specific evidence and circumstances within policing, including geographical variation in workforce support and wider wellbeing pressures. The evidence of a particular problem in some police force training does not in itself demonstrate equivalent systemic gaps across fire and rescue services. There is also existing support for the fire and rescue service, including the National Fire Chiefs Council’s suicide prevention and postvention toolkit, the development of which was supported through Government grant funding. The toolkit provides practical resources and pathways to support prevention, early intervention and postvention. We also recognise the important contribution of specialist organisations, including the Fire Fighters Charity and Samaritans. The Fire Fighters Charity provides dedicated suicide prevention resources and a 24-hour crisis line for the fire service community, which received more than 200 calls in its first year. Many services also work with Samaritans and other specialist organisations. I will just say a little on improving existing training. Alongside our commitment to building the evidence base, the Government will also work closely with the sector to better understand best practice—there is good practice out there—and to identify where there might be material gaps in existing provision. We will seek the advice of the cross-sector firefighter health and wellbeing task and finish group. Taking account of that advice, the Fire Minister—Baroness Blake of Leeds—will discuss with the National Fire Chiefs Council, the Local Government Association and other partners what further sector-led work is needed to identify and address material gaps. We will also engage with the Fire Standards Board and His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire and Rescue Services to consider how standards and inspection can provide stronger assurance.