Lord Whitehead (Lab)

I thank the noble Baroness for that contribution. The question of heat pumps and insulation is very clear: heat pumps do not work as well as they should if a property is poorly insulated, so increasing insulation hand in hand with heat pump installation is a very wise thing to do. However, among other things, the warm homes plan tries to take a measured view of where fabric improvements are perhaps necessary and needed, and where other forms of enhanced energy considerations could take their place. There are properties that are very difficult to insulate to the right standards but, with solar, batteries, heat pumps and such things, they can come up to the sort of standard you require. So this warm homes plan is a little more careful about the combination of various factors. Elements of the plan will involve fabric—probably about 700,000 homes will continue to get fabric uprating—but other factors will be coming into being. I will be happy to write to the noble Baroness about the future homes plan and how that will work out. It is under way at the moment and will, among other things, ensure that new homes, when built, will be of a sufficient standard that they will not need fabric uprating for the future, because it will be in the definition of those new homes. That is going to be produced shortly and I will certainly inform the noble Baroness about its progress as soon as I can.