Baroness Merron (Lab)

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the thank yous and the appreciation for the whole team, which, as noble Lords have said, is extensive. I also appreciate the welcome for the number of improvements that we have made to the Bill by being able to work together. I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions, as I said at the outset. We have made significant progress on the Bill. Even today, the amendments and discussions reflect the complexity of these reforms and the shared determination to deliver legislation that will make a real difference. I will seek to address some of the points that Peers have raised—as always, I am very happy to pick up points outside the Chamber. I turn first to those raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge. She asked about having strong requirements for local authorities rather than special guardians. Stakeholders, including the Office of the Children’s Commissioner, agreed that the main priority should be whether the child is under a care order—that is, the local authority has parental responsibility—and that this should be considered under a separate tier to a special guardian or child arrangements order. I will now pick up the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, and the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, raised about why there is no use of the word “or” in the legislative drafting. On this point, I am advised that, by default, the absence of “and/or” on the page means “or” as a matter of drafting. The modern style is to say “and” when you mean “and”, but to leave—I hope that the noble Lords, Lord Meston and Lord Pannick, and some of their colleagues can assist. I will start that sentence again: the modern style is to say “and” when you mean “and”, but to leave “or” silent if the latter is what is intended. This is the key point: we are clear that it must be a single person who is appointed. On the issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, raised about the creation of a hierarchy, we simply do not agree that a person with residual parental responsibility should always be blocked from being a nominated person, as the child arrangements order or special guardianship may be in place for reasons other than the parent being a risk to the child. However, we agree with the general principle that the AMHP should be aware of, and consider the implications of, any child arrangements order or special guardianship. In most cases, it is true that they will still appoint those people to be the nominated person, rather than the person with residual parental responsibility. It is considered that allowing flexibility allows judgments to be taken on a case-by-case basis, taking into consideration specific circumstances and what is most appropriate for the child or young person, rather than a blanket exclusion. We will provide clear guidance in the code, following consultation and engagement with experts and professionals. I hope that will allow a way forward to deal with the complexity. The noble Baroness raised a point about a parent having malevolent intent. I stress that, if the AMHP later finds that the special guardian will be a more suitable person, the legislation allows them to terminate the appointment of the nominated person and appoint the special guardian instead. If there are any outstanding issues that I have not covered either in my speech or in this response, I will be happy to discuss those with the noble Baroness, as I have continued to do. As I said earlier to noble Lords, I believe that this discussion, these questions and the amendment all show the complexity that we are all seeking to resolve. The noble Baroness, Lady May, asked a number of questions about the consultation. My department will lead the consultation, and we will be working with the Home Office and stakeholders to scope it. While I cannot give an exact timeline for the review, and I am sorry to be unable to do so, I can say again that before launching the consultation we are going to be working closely with the Home Office, the NHS, social care colleagues and the police to consider the options to consult on that support better outcomes for patients and the services. I will be pleased to set out further details on the timetable in due course. The noble Baroness, Lady May, asked what happens at the end of the review. I am sure she will understand that I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of the process. However, on a future vehicle to implement the review, while obviously we cannot commit to a legislative means to do that, we will be taking forward the consultation results and outcomes when parliamentary time allows. I will be pleased to keep the noble Baroness updated on all these developments. The noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, mentioned my colleague the Minister, Stephen Kinnock MP, who did a sterling job of taking through this legislation in the other place. She asked about his work with lived-experience groups. I say to your Lordships’ House and to the noble Baroness in particular that, after Royal Assent, our first priority will be to draft and consult on the code of practice. We will be engaging with people with lived experience, their families and carers, and with staff, professional groups, commissioners, providers and others to do this, alongside launching a public consultation. The code will be laid before Parliament before final publication. Realistically, we expect that this process will take at least a year, but the nature of our discussions means that it is important that we get this right. The noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, asked about confirmation of an implementation timeline. While of course legislation is important, implementation is what delivers the results. We estimate, as the noble Baroness has heard me say, that full implementation will take around 10 years; that does not mean we wait 10 years but, realistically, that is how long full implementation will take, due to the time needed to train the workforce and the need to ensure that the right community support is available. Noble Lords will be aware that this timeframe necessarily spans multiple spending reviews and multiple Parliaments, so we are limited—I hope noble Lords will understand this—in the detail that can be given about future spend and timelines. I quite understand why noble Lords raise this issue. I acknowledge the dedication and thoughtful engagement shown by Members of your Lordships’ House throughout the passage of the Bill. The amendments made by the Government reflect not only technical refinements but, importantly to me, our response to the concerns and insights that were raised by Peers, MPs, stakeholders and those with lived experience. I believe that those concerns and insights have improved the Bill’s clarity and effectiveness, and I hope that noble Lords will support these amendments. It is thanks to what I regard as exemplary cross-party working that we are in a position to pass the Bill into law and begin implementation. It is about bringing positive change as soon as possible for those whose lives are touched by the legislation that we have debated. I commend the Motion to the House.