Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)

My Lords, I have sat with increasing interest listening to the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, finding that I agreed with every word he said. My view is that Amendment 46 goes too far. It is excessive that we should get rid of existing courts. Perhaps everybody would expect me to say that, although I never sat as an immigration tribunal judge. However, the Government need to listen with a great deal of care to the fact that what is going on at the moment is not satisfactory—that it is too easy to go through the system, one court after another. I can see the force of saying that something should be done, but I do not think Amendment 46 is the answer. Moving to the very interesting suggestion of suspending the Human Rights Act, we need to bear in mind that it is a British piece of legislation and this Parliament can change it. It may be that either there should be a degree of suspension or, as the Minister said in Committee, as referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Faulks, that some changes could be made, particularly to Article 8. Although I would not want to support the amendments here, they raise an issue that the public are particularly concerned about—those who understand it—and the Government should be listening very carefully.