Baroness Noakes (Con)

My Lords, the whole Committee has, I know, great respect for the immense knowledge and expertise in economics of both the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, and his colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Layard. Laying out a theoretical argument about what happens to employment and demand in the economy is entirely valid, but it ignores what actually happens at the level of the individual enterprise, employer or employee. In her amendment, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, talks about the impact on a specific group of employees. There is nothing in what the noble Lord had to say about the overall macroeconomic impact, which will affect the attractiveness of continuing to employ veterans if the cost of employing them is going to go up. In debating the previous group, we talked about whether community pharmacies could stay in business, given the additional costs that would arise for those businesses. We have to remember that this is not a highly theoretical exercise: the imposition of these massive national insurance changes is going to have a huge impact at the micro level. That is what we are trying to explore in many of the amendments we will look at in Committee, today and next week. They are not answered by theoretical answers at a macro level.