Baroness Kidron (CB)

My Lords, in moving this amendment, I shall speak also to Amendment 75 in my name; I thank those noble Lords who have added their names in support. I was glad to add my name to Amendments 12, 85 and 86 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Tarassenko, and Amendment 84 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones. At the heart of these amendments is the place of artificial intelligence in the Bill. This concern was powerfully raised by noble Lords at Second Reading and repeatedly raised by colleagues from all sides in the other place—as well as, I rather suspect, earlier in this Session. Amendment 6 is a probing amendment. It seeks to understand whether AI products and services are categorised as relevant digital services and, therefore, whether providers of AI products and services will be subject to the same duties in the Bill as other providers of relevant digital services, such as online marketplaces and search engines. The reason I raise this and wish to have clarification is that, in the NIS regulations, the definition of an online search engine is “a digital service that allows users to perform searches of, in principle, all websites or websites in a particular language on the basis of a query on any subject in the form of a keyword, phrase or other input, and returns links in which information related to the requested content can be found”. This sounds a lot like a definition that could cover many of the LLMs and AI agents, so I ask the Minister whether AI services are already covered under the categorisation of online search engines or absolutely not. I would also like her to confirm whether, if an AI service did not offer links or was restricted to a particular subject matter but had all these other features, it would automatically fall out of the regime—that is, whether some are covered and some are not. At Second Reading in the other place, the Minister said—the Minister here just gave this answer, I believe—that the Bill enables the Secretary of State to require an organisation using AI “to cease using and isolate an AI model”—[Official Report, Commons, 16/6/26; col. 779.] but suggested that those powers are “a backstop” and do not focus on the safety of AI products systematically. I find myself confused because, on the one hand, it seems that the definition could include them but, on the other, it seems that there may be reasons why some might be out of scope. It appears that AI is not properly considered proactively but, if there is a disaster, the Secretary of State can do something. When the Minister speaks, I would be grateful if she could answer those two questions directly. This is a probing amendment, as I say, and it would be helpful, in the course of considering the Bill, to understand that categorically. Amendment 75 would establish a series of red lines for AI products and services classified as relevant digital services. These red lines have excellent parentage; they reflect the work of Professor Stuart Russell and are signed up to by some of the most eminent AI founders and professionals around the globe. They also reflect the global call for AI red lines launched during the United Nations General Assembly. In short, they provide that AI services must not be capable of evading human oversight, shutdown or control, nor be able to autonomously self-replicate, self-improve or acquire compute. They provide that AI providers would be prohibited from creating systems capable of autonomously conducting sophisticated attacks on critical infrastructure, that support terrorists and hostile states in attacks on such critical infrastructure, or that can deceive or manipulate populations at scale. They also prevent capabilities that relate to the availability, authenticity, integrity or confidentiality of stored or processed data, which follows the exact language of the Bill. Proposed new subsection (3) of the amendment would require AISI to ensure that these red lines are adhered to. This is an essential amendment and I believe the UK is singularly well placed to introduce it. There is increasing evidence and understanding of the risks, and both the public and experts are calling for action. I was going to quote many people, but will say just that, a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to Jonathan Hall KC, the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation and the Independent Reviewer of State Threats Legislation. He is among the many people who have warned publicly about the risk of AI used to support terrorist action and subvert information in the public domain. Recent polling has found that 85% of the UK public would like this to happen; they would like red lines. I fully support Amendments 12, 85 and 86 in the name of noble Lord, Lord Tarassenko, which seek to establish a greater role for AISI in these regulations and to give it statutory powers. I leave it to the noble Lord to explain the amendments in full, which I am sure he will do much better than me, except to say that, in July, some other noble Lords and I were briefed by one of the frontier companies, which gleefully said that it worked to a set of ethical standards. However, when pressed—repeatedly, by noble Lords—the company admitted that it wrote, interpreted and managed those standards itself and was free to abandon them in an instant. Have we not learned from countless experiences before, in online safety, privacy and AI itself, that allowing tech companies to set and mark their own homework endangers the public and our national security? Amendment 92 from the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, has a similar aim to that of the noble Lord, Lord Tarassenko. I hope that, during the passage of the Bill, the Government find a unifying approach with both noble Lords to back AISI in its functions and separate it from political control. The AISI organisation is the envy of the world, with the capability to oversee a regime for robustly and fairly ensuring that AI is trusted. I beg to move.