Baroness Kramer (LD)

My Lords, let me address Amendment 17 in my name, which is also signed by the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, which I very much appreciate. It addresses authorised push payment fraud and would require the tech companies whose platforms are host to this fraud to share in the reimbursement of losses to the victims of such fraud. At present, victims of APP fraud are reimbursed up to £85,000, half by the bank sending the payment and half by the bank receiving the payment. This is under rules set by the Payment Systems Regulator. The rules and the cost of reimbursement have had a positive effect, in that banks have set up a much more effective regime to alert people to the possibility of fraud. Many of us have seen that in transactions that we do and the warnings that we receive. However, APP fraud continues to grow relentlessly and, on the most recent figures, is up by 19% in the last year, reaching £576 million in the UK. Payment fraud altogether in the UK has reached £1.3 billion a year. It is essentially 40% of all serious crime. Some 66% of these scams—that is what they are—originate on online tech platforms. These platforms made £430 million in revenue last year from advertising these scams. I find that outrageous. Surely these platforms should be picking up at least part of the cost of reimbursement, instead of the cost falling wholly on the banks while the tech companies pocket the advertising revenue. I do not think that the tech companies will ever stop scams and take them seriously until it starts costing them money. I cannot understand why the Government are rejecting my amendment. Are they so afraid of the tech companies and Trump that they cannot provide this protection to ordinary consumers who are being defrauded on such a scale? But I also had a eureka moment in understanding why the FCA has not acted. It came from an absolutely chance conversation. Neither the FCA nor Ofcom is apparently sure which one of them should take the initiative in trying to deal with tech companies and this form of fraud. Regulatory courtesy has led to inaction. Frankly, when I look at the number of victims and the size of the losses, this is completely unacceptable. This amendment breaks that conundrum, and I would expect the Government to attempt to break that conundrum and ensure that action takes place. On other amendments in this group, I support Amendments 19 and 20. I know they will be spoken to eloquently, but I admit to not fully understanding the issues in Amendments 95 and 97. But I will listen carefully. I beg to move.