Lord Harper (Con)

My Lords, I shall speak briefly to Amendment 46 in the names of my noble friends Lord Grayling and Lord Moylan, which I think is a probing amendment. It would remove proposed new Section 8(6) in Schedule 1, which says: “The Office of Rail and Road may not grant a licence … unless the Secretary of State consents to the grant, or … the licence is granted in accordance with a general authority”. I want to probe the circumstances in which the Minister envisages the Secretary of State to have, in effect, a block. My preference would be that the Office of Rail and Road can issue those licences. The new section envisages a general authority having been given by the Secretary of State to the Office of Rail and Road to issue those licences. The only circumstance in which the Secretary of State is required to grant something is if the ORR is trying to do something outside that general authority. Given that it is a general authority, that rather suggests it will give the Office of Rail and Road some broad powers to issue licences, but what are the circumstances in which the Minister envisages that the general authority that the Office of Rail and Road has would not empower it to issue a licence, and therefore when is the Secretary of State’s veto going to be effective? The whole point, I think, is that we are trying to have GBR operating, as I think the Minister said in his answer to the previous group, without excessive micromanagement by Ministers. Again, if the Office of Rail and Road has been given a general authority to grant operating licences, it would seem to me not helpful if it had to be second-guessed a lot by the Secretary of State. What are the circumstances when the general authority would not run and when the Secretary of State would have to, in effect, give permission? If it turns out that the general authority is very broad and there are not really any circumstances, that power may be otiose and therefore really should not be in the Bill. I am just trying to understand the limits on that general authority that is given to the Office of Rail and Road, and I would be grateful if the Minister could set that out when he responds to this group.