Baroness Pidgeon (LD)

The noble Lords, Lord Moylan and Lord Harper, have set out their concerns around workforce productivity and industrial relations. Some of the debate reminds me of debates we used to have at City Hall around London Underground. However, the key issue for me is exactly as the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, set out. It is something that I mentioned in an earlier debate and, when we debated the first legislation on the public ownership of the railway two years ago, my noble friend Lady Randerson also raised it. It is to understand fully whether staff will remain in separate Great British Railways companies or become employed by one company. As we have heard, they are all on different terms and conditions, with great variation, and of course the unions’ role is to try to bring everyone up to the highest level. However, the idea of an all-out rail strike looms ahead if we do not have clarity on this and if everyone ends up working for one company—Great British Railways. In some ways, this is comparable to the NHS. A number of years ago a change rolled out, standardising pay grades and terms and conditions right across the NHS, and buying people out of their contracts. We have had a lot of rail disputes, but I would look back to the absolute pain of the dispute with Govia Thameslink Railways—Southern railway—when the Government were trying to push it to remove guards on its trains. That went on for at least nine months around 2016-17. It was absolutely painful and damaging to the economy, with businesses going out of business in places such as Brighton. There was uncertainty every day as a passenger of not knowing whether you were going to be able to catch a train to pick up your child from nursery or whether you were going to face being fined. There was that stress every day, and for people you spoke to it was huge. The idea that you could have that on a national scale is worrying indeed. It would be helpful if the Minister could give us clarity on this point, because as we move forward with the Bill this is a serious consideration.