Contribution
My Lords, I read this group of amendments with a lot of interest, in terms of whether a different way would be possible. I thank my noble friend for tabling them.
I agree with the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle that Australia is not an accurate comparative country to look at. Actually, it makes me feel even more strongly, and the Minister will have received a letter this week from many of us asking for the impact assessment to be looked at again. One of the reasons for that is that the impact assessment looks at about the first 10 years in Oregon. If we compare data between Oregon and the state of Victoria, it took Oregon 17 years to reach the same number of deaths that was hit in the state of Victoria—not Australia, but the state of Victoria—in the first 12 months of its Bill passing.
I accept that the first voluntary aided death in Victoria was described as beautiful, but in the time that that legislation has been enacted, it has thrown up many issues. In 2023-24, there were a number of complications with intravenous injections. There were technical problems in 5% of cases. In 10% of cases, the death took longer than expected—one person took seven days. In 29 responses, the death more than two hours. In seven reported cases, it took more than six hours, and the longest was 11 hours. So, we have to be really careful about painting other jurisdictions as the sunny uplands.
There was a case reported in the Times on 22 March last year, where a man had requested the drugs to end his life. He had decided that he wanted to have longer left to live, and his wife gave him the drugs anyway, because, I presume, she decided that it was his time to go. It is a very different jurisdiction, but it again raises issues of coercion.
We also have to note with Victoria that, since its legislation has passed, elder suicide has risen by 50%. These are the things that we must take into to account when we are looking at what happens in this country.
I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, for arranging a meeting last year, when we were able to meet some Australian medics, but that gave me even more cause for concern, because there was a story of man who had taken a while to come to a decision to have an assisted death. The day he finally decided to have it and started taking the noxious mixture, he did not want to carry on and his family said, “But, Dad, you’ve decided to die today, you need to keep taking the mixture”. All these things worry me when we look at the speed with which these navigators might be able to push someone towards assisted suicide. In principle, a navigator sounds great, but they are only pushing people one way. We do not know enough about the training or whether, potentially, an AI bot might be used at some points. As has been raised, this could potentially just be debated in a 90-minute debate on a statutory instrument. So we have to look much more carefully at these areas. I do not think these amendments are adequate for what we want to do.
My noble friend Lord Birt raised the extremely sad case of Nick Dimbleby. But, as far as I understand, with his condition, MND, he would be not eligible for assisted suicide under the Bill. I would welcome the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, confirming that.
It has been raised in different ways and on different days that our experiences of pain are very different. In other debates, we have talked about incontinence: what one person thinks is awful, another might think “I can live with it, it’s okay”. My noble friend Lord Birt talked about someone being PEG fed. Unfortunately, there is an inequality of the system in this very Chamber. My noble friend Lady Campbell is not able to respond to this group of amendments because she can only speak at the start. She cannot intervene later, so she is not able to listen to the debate and pick up points. I am sure she will be able to raise it, and I beg your Lordships’ tolerance because she might have to raise this in another group. There has been talk about being PEG fed being awful, but being PEG fed has enabled her to survive and to contribute. I worry about the inequality of this Chamber in terms of people being able to contribute properly.
Amendment 223 looks at this happening in four days. I do not believe that there is any system that will be able to, in that period of time, assess whether somebody has been coerced. Amendment 336, which says that the second assessment could happen after a period of reflection of seven days, does not even vaguely take into account the five stages of grief. There are not that many papers on people with spinal cord injuries, but one that I have read says that it can take up to seven years for a wheelchair user to get over the experience of traumatic injury. If you take that into account, people will be forced very quickly to end their life, when the ability to deal with the issue that is in front of them has not been taken into account.