Criminal Justice Reform
Tuesday, 8 September 2026
Contributions
Statement
The following Statement was made in the House of Commons on Tuesday 1 September.
“With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will make a Statement on the implementation of the Sentencing Act 2026. When this Labour Government took office, we inherited a crisis in our prisons. They were regularly at 99% capacity, with fewer than 100 places available at one stage. We were one bad day away from running out of space, which would have meant the courts being forced to suspend trials, the police being unable to make arrests, and there would be nowhere to put dangerous criminals—a total breakdown of law and order, with victims bearing the brunt.
My predecessors acted swiftly to stabilise our prisons by committing to the most ambitious prison-building programme since the Victorians and pledging 14,000 new prison places by 2031, with 3,200 already delivered. Compare that with the record of the Conservative Party, which added just 500 net places in 14 years. We have also deported nearly 12,000 foreign national offenders, but we had to ensure that we never return to the shambolic emergency releases carried out, with little scrutiny or warning, by the previous Government. We passed the Sentencing Act, which introduced the earned progression model, whereby offenders on standard determinate sentences spend at least a third of their sentence behind bars, and longer if they behave badly. More serious offences require people to serve at least half of their sentence, with no upper limit for time spent inside for bad behaviour.
But release from prison is not the end of the story. We have overseen the largest ever expansion of tagging and, working closely with the police, we are giving the Probation Service access to the largest and toughest range of measures to manage offenders. Every single offender leaving prison can now be tagged, and strict licence conditions can include curfews and bans from pubs, clubs and even football matches. There will be exclusion zones where criminals cannot go. For the most serious sexual and violent offenders, we are introducing world-first ‘restriction zones’ that confine them to specific areas, which are sometimes a few miles wide, curtailing their liberty in order to give victims more freedom. If conditions are breached, offenders can be recalled to prison.
This clearly asks more of our brilliant Probation Service, so we are also investing £700 million more in probation and community services by 2028-29, and we are hiring a further 1,300 trainee probation officers, on top of the 2,300 recruited in the past two years.
Let me be clear about who the model applies to. The most dangerous offenders, who have been locked up for serious violent and sexual offences, and those on life sentences were never eligible, but the Prime Minister and I were determined to look again. We moved quickly to exclude rape and many serious child sex and grooming offences, and we have gone further still by excluding all unlawful killing offences—including death by dangerous or drink-driving, causing or allowing the death of a child, and manslaughter—as well as indecent assault, which has been used to prosecute historical child sex abuse. This means hundreds more dangerous criminals staying behind bars for longer, including those who killed PC Andrew Harper in the line of duty. It is the right thing to do, and I pay tribute to his wife Lissie and his mother Debbie, who campaigned for this. We would like to have gone further, but we were unable to do so due to the lack of investment by the previous Government over 14 years.
I want to reassure the House that victims in the victim contact scheme are being kept informed by dedicated victim liaison officers. We are rightly giving victims the opportunity to have their say on licence conditions for offenders in their case, and I have instructed my officials to attempt to trace all affected victims for whom we do not have the details. On top of that, we are boosting victim support with a £18.9 million funding package, including a dedicated free helpline offering emotional support for anyone affected, and specialist support for victims of violence against women and girls. I have asked the Prisons Minister to work with victims groups to shape our response, because victims must come first.
The Prime Minister and I have pushed the system to its limits. At the same time, my duty is to ensure that we always have the space to lock up offenders. Today I can announce a fast-tracked plan to create more headroom in our prison system by bringing forward more than £110 million of funding. We have identified where we can accelerate the delivery of more places, including by converting space within prisons into cells, and we are pushing to deliver current building plans more quickly. We will also invest in new land for prisons and build a credible pipeline of new sites to enable more prison building, because my top priority is to build a long-term, sustainable future for our prison estate.
We are also freeing up space in the shorter term. There are thousands of foreign national offenders in our prisons, at vast expense to taxpayers. We have increased removals by 41% compared with the last two years of the previous Tory Government, and we have changed the law to expand the early removal scheme. Now we will go further. Next year we will begin removing foreign national offenders serving determinate sentences immediately after sentencing, but I want to reassure the House that the most dangerous offenders, such as those already excluded from the Sentencing Act changes, will still be required to serve prison time before being deported. I want to be clear that all removed offenders will be barred from returning to the UK for life, because deportation is the anchor of that punishment. If you break our laws and abuse Britain’s hospitality, we will permanently remove you.
We will also act on a long-standing injustice. More than 2,000 people are still trapped by indeterminate imprisonment for public protection, or IPP, sentences. They were rightly abolished a decade ago, but offenders are still locked up for far longer than envisaged, often for crimes that, if committed today, would see them spend much less time in jail. Of those who have never been released, 99% are beyond the tariff imposed by the court, and 80% have served 10 years or more beyond it. Tragically, with no end of their sentence in sight, some IPP prisoners have taken their own lives.
Concerns about IPPs have been raised across the political spectrum, including by the former Justice Secretary, Alex Chalk, who called them “a stain” on our justice system. The number of IPP offenders has been reducing, but the Prime Minister and I want to go further. We will soon bring forward legislation to end the sentence, once and for all, by the end of this Parliament. These are complex cases, and some of these offenders have committed serious crimes. Public safety will always be my top priority, but we must balance that with fairness on sentences. It will take time to get this right, but the work will begin immediately, and I offer Members of all parties and none in this place the opportunity to work together on a cross-party basis. I will listen to experts inside and outside this House, including the former Justice Secretary, Robert Buckland, and the former Home Secretary, David Blunkett. They are committed advocates of IPP reform, whom I thank for agreeing to work with me. In the meantime, we will do everything within the existing framework to support those in prison to move towards a safe and sustainable release.
I also intend to look at how we can improve outcomes for offenders with complex needs. Women in prison often have high levels of trauma, abuse, mental ill-health and addiction. Many are mothers and their children can be affected profoundly by them being in prison, so I want to reduce the number of women in custody where it is safe to do so, alongside a cross-Government agenda to address the drivers of women’s offending. For youth offenders, I am announcing £4.5 million of investment for robust community alternatives to locking children up in expensive, ineffective and unsuitable prisons. To help solve the crisis in adult prisons, I have decided to temporarily hold some 18 year-olds in our youth estate for longer.
My job is to balance the sustainability of our prisons with public protection, the rights of victims and public confidence in the justice system. The decisions that the Prime Minister and I have had to take are difficult ones. We would like to have gone further, but the Government inherited a system on the brink of failure. I am clear that there must always be space for dangerous offenders, because protecting the public means fixing prisons for good. Otherwise, it is victims who are let down. We will never let that happen.
This Government will run towards problems, including the tough decisions needed to build a justice system that is firm, fair and that protects the public. Those aims will guide me as I tackle its challenges, reform it for a sustainable future and ensure it commands the confidence of the British public. I commend this Statement to the House”.
Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)
My Lords, the exodus that we have just seen was about as chaotic as the Government’s plans that we are about to debate. However, I thank the Minister for providing us with the opportunity to ask questions. This latest Statement represents the fifth early release scheme that has been announced since the Prime Minister took office less than two months ago. With every new announcement, victims have been left in doubt as to which criminals will be released early. I hope that the Government recognise the impact that their lack of direction will have caused. The Minister in the other place set out that the amended early release scheme will operate for the foreseeable future, as the Sentencing Act 2026 is the basis on which standard determinate sentences will be governed. However, given that the Act, as passed by Parliament, did not exclude any of the exemptions that were announced last week, I hope that the Minister will understand why questions remain. It is right that those convicted of the crimes set out by the Justice Secretary are exempt from the early release scheme. If noble Lords cast their minds back to January, when the House debated the Report stage of this very Act, they may remember an amendment tabled by my noble and learned friend Lord Keen of Elie that would have achieved a very similar outcome. That amendment would have excluded a number of dangerous criminals—those serving time for some of the most serious offences—from early release. However, the Government resisted our Conservative amendment and prevented it going into the Act. The Government were warned that the Act would reduce the time spent in prison for more than 60% of rapists and more than 80% of child sex offenders. Now, nine months later, the Government have belatedly accepted the problems with their early release scheme. Why has it taken them so long to acknowledge the warnings from my noble and learned friend? What has changed in their assessment of available prison spaces between January and September that they can now include these exemptions when they resisted them earlier this year? There is a further important point, which I ask the Minister to consider very carefully. The statutory instrument that establishes the early exemptions says: “The provisions listed in regulation 2 do not come into force in relation to a sentence for an offence listed in the Schedule to these Regulations”. In other words, it is a commencement issue; it stops it coming into force. The Sentencing Act 2026 has a commencement provision. The Secretary of State has the power to commence the early release scheme on different days for different purposes. You can have a postponed commencement for offences that are subject to the early release scheme under the 2026 Act, but you can have only a postponed commencement; you cannot have no commencement. As the Minister knows, there is case law to the effect that a permanent failure to commence the early release scheme in full would be beyond the powers of the Secretary of State because it would frustrate the will of Parliament in passing the legislation in the first place. So there is a real conflict here between government comms and government policy. Government comms are telling the media that the exempted serious offenders will remain behind bars, full stop. The mechanism that Ministers are using appears to be only temporary. Can the Minister resolve that conflict by confirming to us today that the carve-out in these regulations is, in fact, only a temporary carve-out? Will the Government therefore bring forward substantive amendments to the 2026 Act? If so, when? If he cannot confirm that today, will the Minister recognise and confirm that he has at least taken into account the real risk that this statutory instrument will be successfully overturned, following judicial review? I turn now to IPP sentences. I acknowledge that 99% of IPP prisoners have served longer than their original tariff. Equally, of course, those prisoners were given those sentences due to the risk that they posed, so we have to consider public safety. The Minister in the other place outlined that the Government will introduce legislation on this matter. Is the Minister able to help us on whether that will be primary or secondary legislation? Is there a more specific date for its introduction than “soon”, which is one of those rather elastic words when used by Government Ministers for legislation? I ask the Minister to outline, if he can, what safeguards will remain in place to ensure that prisoners still considered too dangerous to be released are not released and that any risk to victims is, of course, taken properly into consideration. The Minister in the other place did not share a particular target or timeline by which the Government expect to deport foreign national prisoners or to answer the question of how the Government intend to overcome the barriers posed by, in particular, Articles 2 and 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights. Will the Minister set out the Government’s plans for how they will address those barriers and provide either a date by which they expect to remove all foreign national prisoners or a target number of how many they intend to remove by the end of this year? These are pressing issues; I hope that the Minister will be able to address them. I have one final, short point. Arising from the Statement, the Government have pledged a prison-building programme that will, we are told, create 14,000 new prison places by 2031—but the problem is now. There are currently 4,000 operational prison places not in use for reasons ranging from regulations to officer shortages. What steps are the Government taking to utilise those spaces? These matters are all of serious concern to victims. As I say, the Government have now made five different announcements on the early release scheme. I hope for clarity’s sake—and, perhaps, for the Minister’s sake as well—that this is going to be the last one. I look forward to the Minister’s responses to my questions.
Lord Marks of Henley-on-Thames (LD)
My Lords, we agree with the Statement that the Government clearly inherited a crisis of prison spaces, and a crisis in our criminal justice system as a whole. Frankly, the crisis was clearly attributable to many years of neglect, principally under the last Government. The Sentencing Act was a timely response to that crisis of available prison space. It is unsurprising that, as events have developed, the implementation of the Sentencing Act has changed, and the response of the Government is acceptable in that regard. We are content to see that a great deal is being done for victims and victim support but concerned to know that public confidence in tagging and the other measures that are proposed to increase confidence and security among the public are matched by an increase in concern for the welfare of victims generally and the availability of services to those victims. The provision of probation services plays a considerable part in the Statement. Our concern is that the resources available from the welcome allocation of £700 million for probation services by the end of this Parliament will be insufficient given the increased demands of more prisoners released into the community, more tagging, more restrictions and more exclusions, which are designed to increase confidence and security among the public. What are the Government’s plans in the event that the resources for probation prove insufficient? How far are they able to say that there will be an increase in the £700 million allocation? I turn to prison building. There is in the Statement a pride taken in the fact that more prison spaces are to be made available. However, prison building is not the whole answer. We need to move to a more humane system that prioritises reduction in reoffending, reform and rehabilitation over simply providing more space. We have overcrowded and unhealthy prisons, many of which need replacement, but new prisons take a great deal of time to build. There are delays in planning, in getting planning permission, in design and in building new prisons. Can the Minister give us details of those delays in the prisons that have been recently opened? The Statement also talks about building more cells within existing prisons. That is well and good, but the problem may be that those new cells in existing prisons will put more pressure and more need for spaces on the rest of the facilities in those prisons. How far have the Government considered ways of mitigating that? Finally, on a more positive note, we very much welcome the commitment to legislation to end the complete scandal of IPP sentences before the end of this Parliament. It is monstrous that a sentence that was abolished in 2013 should still be keeping prisoners behind bars when those prisoners would have been released years ago had they been given sentences that fitted their crimes. I hear the concerns about security. Nevertheless, prisoners on determinate sentences are released into the community, and it is welcome to hear that the same is going to happen for IPP prisoners. We accept the invitation to work cross-party with the Government to work out how this can be achieved, but it would be interesting to hear from the Minister today the detail of how this is going to be achieved within the timescale and what measures that are not currently in place will be taken to that end.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Justice (Lord Lemos) (Lab)
My Lords, I begin by declaring my interest. I was the lead non-executive director and chaired the agency board of His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service until March 2025. Last week the Lord Chancellor set out in the other place changes to the implementation of the Sentencing Act 2026 to strike a better balance between protecting prison capacity and protecting the public from dangerous offenders. As the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, indicated, the Government recognise the uncertainty that victims have faced over the summer. When they are told that an offender may be released earlier than they expected, I have no doubt at all that it can be extremely distressing. I will say bit more about how we propose to support, and are already supporting, victims in a moment. Victim liaison officers will be engaging directly with victims opted in to the victim contact scheme, which this Government have expanded in recent legislation, so that they understand how their individual cases are affected. We are also attempting to trace victims who are not in the scheme. This is backed by £18.9 million for victim support, including a dedicated helpline and specialist support for victims of violence against women and girls. The Government recognise that victims’ concerns are increased by uncertainty. The whole purpose of making these changes to the exemptions is because we have listened to victims. That is the basis on which we are proposing to make these changes. It is why the Government were determined to look again at these changes, which never applied to some of the most serious violent and sexual offences or life sentences. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, that of course I remember the debates on the Sentencing Bill. I was here throughout. I suppose I will not be the first or the last Minister to say that we are doing something different from the things I objected to in the past. We have now, rightly, also excluded rape, serious child sex and grooming offences, manslaughter, other unlawful killing offences, and indecent assault, which had been used to prosecute historic child sex abuse. We acknowledge the public concern. That is why the Prime Minister and the Lord Chancellor have initiated these changes and that is why we have made the announcement. We have listened to victims—that is why we are doing these things—and we want to continue to do that. On the point that the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, made about commencement, the Act has already been commenced. Primary legislation is not needed in the short term, but we will pursue it when parliamentary time allows. We must, however, continue to be honest about why these reforms were introduced. When we took office in 2024, prisons were regularly at 99% of their capacity. Running out of places risked paralysing the criminal justice system and we acted to avert that crisis, but prisons continue to operate near their limit. I have been involved with the subject for many years now. This is not a new problem. This goes back to 2022. I have discussed it—
Lord Garnier (Con)
It goes back beyond that.
Lord Lemos (Lab)
Yes, it goes back beyond that, but the intensity has not gone away. The answer cannot be a succession of emergency measures. The noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, said the Government had introduced various emergency measures. Well, we needed to, because the previous Government refused to act. Parliament legislated through the Sentencing Act for a sustainable model in which some offenders spend less of their sentence in custody, depending on their behaviour, before continuing to serve their sentence under intensive supervision in the community. Much of the debate about the changes we are making to the Sentencing Act has simply not taken account of the changes we are making in the supervision arrangements. I am happy to say more if noble Lords want to ask me, but it is a different proposition that is now being proposed for the second third of the earned progression model by probation staff. Probation staff do an extraordinarily difficult job protecting the public, and I want to pay tribute to them. It is easy to be critical of both prison and probation staff, but I regard them as heroic and doing jobs that many of us would find almost unconscionable. Working closely with the police, we have given them a much more robust range of measures to manage offenders outside prison, and we are building a very different Probation Service. These measures can include curfews, exclusion zones and, for the most serious sexual and violent offenders, new restriction zones, which will tightly constrain their movements, with serious breaches of these conditions potentially resulting in recall to prison. The purpose of probation, as we are now conceiving and structuring it, is about controlling people’s movement, knowing where people are and being able to take action. We are making it possible for probation officers to know where tagged offenders are in real time. That has not been possible before, so it is a really big change. In response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Marks, we recognise the pressure that probation already faces, and now we are asking it to do more. That is why, as he noted, we have invested an additional £700 million in probation and community services by the end of the sentencing review period. We have also hired 2,300 more trainee probation officers. The recruitment of new probation officers has gone well, and we plan to bring on board 1,300 more by March 2027. We have made substantial progress on productivity in probation through the introduction of Justice Transcribe, and we have reduced probation officer case loads by 25%. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Timpson for his work in this area; he was relentless in his focus on improving probation. I think he is still in his place—yes, he is. I am delighted to have him as my guardian angel on my shoulder. I said earlier that we cannot allow our prisons to return to the cliff edge that we faced in 2024. Changes to the implementation of the Sentencing Act inevitably have an effect on prison capacity, and we have a duty to ensure that there is enough space in prisons to meet demand. The Lord Chancellor has therefore brought forward £110 million to convert existing prison spaces into cells. We are also accelerating current builds and securing sites for future prisons. This will help us to reach our ambitious target of creating 14,000 additional prison places by 2021, of which 3,200 have already been delivered. The noble Lord, Lord Marks, asked me about planning difficulties and so on. I am happy to give him more detail later, but we have made a good deal of progress on acquiring land and have speeded up the planning process. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, we are also freeing up capacity by accelerating the removal of foreign national offenders: I am sure I will come back to that. We will shortly commence a power under the Sentencing Act allowing eligible offenders to be removed immediately after sentencing. That will not include dangerous offenders. My time is up, but I want to address the points that were made about IPP. This is a very significant change. We can talk at greater length on noble Lords’ questions about how we are going to go about this, but taking those sentences off the statute book is an absolute priority and would still be an absolute priority even if the prisons were half empty.
Viscount Hailsham (Con)
My Lords, with regard to excluding those convicted of manslaughter from early release, should we not keep in mind that manslaughter involves varying degrees of culpability, from the very serious to those which are less serious? There are cases involving, for example, a high degree of provocation or diminished responsibility, or, for example, a common assault where a single blow fells the victim who falls, hits his head on a table and dies. These are offences which vary in culpability to a high degree and I suggest that they should not be classed in one single spectrum.
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I entirely agree with those comments from the noble Viscount. That is absolutely right. We obviously have to be consistent in the way we apply these exemptions, but the variation he points to is exactly right.
Lord Woodley (Lab)
My Lord, I warmly welcome this Statement. The Government’s commitment to end the IPP scandal, as has been mentioned, is long overdue. A transition with public protection at its heart is the right way forward, but may I suggest that we start straightaway with what I call the low-hanging fruit: the IPP prisoners who have already been found safe for release but have been recalled to custody for no further offence? That is about 80% of the recalls. Around 1,000 IPP prisoners could be released safely under supervision like this, so will the Government consider this option as a matter of urgency?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I thank my noble friend and pay tribute to him for the work that he has done, along with many other noble Lords on all sides of the House, to move us forward on the question of IPPs and how we regularise the situation. I should reinforce this: it goes without saying that we are not going to release people the Government or Parole Board think are dangerous, and we will put in place arrangements to make sure that we do not. On recall specifically, we are planning to consider whether we can make more use of the risk-assessed recall review. I am happy to discuss this with my noble friend and others to address some of the concerns raised, but the recall powers are there for a reason and we do not propose to get rid of them. We are proposing to make sure that they are used in a way that keeps the public safe, but does not keep people in unnecessarily.
Lord Garnier (Con)
My Lords—
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I know that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, wants to get up, but I want to respond quickly to the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Marks, about implementation. It is obviously very early days. The Prime Minister has made a commitment to legislate in this Parliament. That is a major step forward and I absolutely undertake to keep the House, and noble Lords who are interested in this, up to date as our thinking develops. But I am sure he understands that I cannot explain precisely how we are going to do it now.
Baroness Hamwee (LD)
My Lords, also on IPPs, we have failed so many people. So many of those prisoners were not able to access the courses that they were supposed to undertake to qualify them to apply for parole and so on. They must have been damaged by what has happened and the length of time they have had to spend in prison which they should not have done. What are we going to do to support that cohort of people?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I thank the noble Baroness. That is exactly what we are thinking about now. As we go forward with these plans on IPPs, we are actively considering how we support them, before release and afterwards. It is absolutely shocking that 80% of the unreleased IPP prisoners—I think that the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, mentioned this statistic—have served more than 10 years over their tariff. Of course that has had an effect on them and we must make sure that we understand and mitigate that effect, not just from the point of view of public protection but for the welfare and dignity of those people. I still believe in the welfare and dignity of prisoners; I know that is old-fashioned.
The Lord Bishop of Gloucester
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for this Statement, particularly the highlight on IPP prisoners. However, the approach still feels piecemeal, driven too much by ill-informed public narrative and wrongly focusing the problem on prison capacity. Does the Minister agree that the focus needs to be on reducing offending and reoffending, with the solutions being evidence-led to benefit victims, offenders, families and communities together? Will he say what progress has been made in response to recommendation 5.1 of the Independent Sentencing Review , namely, that we should: “Launch a public awareness campaign on sentencing”, because in recent weeks we have seen the consequences of this huge void?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I thank the right reverend Prelate for those observations. I disagree only with the comment about the ill-informed public narrative. There is a need for us to better explain to the public what we are doing and why we are doing it, particularly, as I have said, the intensive community supervision that we are talking about in the second phase of the progression model. The Government are still committed to the progression model; it is in the legislation, and we will take it forward. I absolutely accept the challenge that we need to do better at communicating with the public.
Lord Clarke of Nottingham (Con)
My Lords, I was Justice Secretary when we abolished IPPs in 2012. Nobody in Parliament then would have believed that, 14 years later, we would still have 2,000 people being held in prison indefinitely without release. It is not the case that they had all been sentenced because they were dangerous; IPPs were beginning to be used by many courts as a routine sentence for comparatively minor criminal offences. If those 2,000 people had been given the normal determinate sentences that we now have, every one of them would have been released some time ago without further process. It is quite certain that, when the 2,000 are released, several of them will commit quite serious offences and come back before the court. Then, of course, there will be outrage led by campaigners and, understandably, by victims and so on. There is a danger that, to guard against that, the Government will legislate for all kinds of constraints on the release of the IPP prisoners, and I fear that, in a few years’ time, we will find that 1,000 or so are still in prison on indeterminate time. Of course, the Government have to look at legislation, but will the Minister try to ensure that it is not based on ultra caution and trying to avoid some future turmoil, and that it is mainly based on the belief that all these people should be free and only in exceptional circumstances should those that are an obvious danger to the public be kept in custody?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I pay tribute to the work that the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, did as Justice Secretary, particularly in relation to young offenders. On the specific point about IPP, I take his warning very seriously. This will be a very heated debate, and I shall appreciate the support of all noble Lords in taking this forward in the way the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, suggested. The Government do not want to be risk averse, nor guided by ill-informed public opinion, but we want to take victims into account, as I am sure the noble Lord understands. However, his warnings will be ringing in my ears as this goes forward.
Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)
My Lords, I turn to the cause of the prison problem. In my time in the law, I have seen sentences steadily increasing, so that today they are more than twice as long as when I started at the Bar, and far longer than sentences in most European countries. The cause has generally been a knee-jerk reaction to perceived demand from the public for greater punishment for particularly unpleasant instances of a crime, so sentences have been increased by the legislature. Does the Minister consider that this trend, which shows no signs of abating, ought to be examined very carefully, so that sentences are not increased without due regard to the consequences this will have?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
The observation that sentences have doubled at the hands of legislators over a few decades is at the heart of the way we are progressing with the Sentencing Act and creating a different structure for these things. I do not know what the intention was, but if it was to win public confidence in reducing crime by doubling these sentences, it has palpably failed. Of course, there are several objectives—not competing ones—that we need to take into account: seeing that justice is done, taking the views of the victims into account, and making sure the public understand why the sentences imposed are the ones being imposed. But we must proceed with all those objectives in a considered and holistic way. That is what seems to me to have been missing.
Lord Foster of Bath (LD)
My Lords, in what appears to be plucking figures out of the air, we are told that between 200 and 900 new cells are going to be created by the conversion of laundries, office spaces and storage areas. Can the Minister at least assure us that every one of those new cells will be fitted with automatic fire-detection equipment? Secondly, can he tell us where the staff are going to come from to supervise the prisoners in those cells?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
We will of course take all the standard precautions, including fire safety, in the provision of these new cells. They are not cheap—that is not a secret —and I think the Lord Chancellor said that the numbers will be in the middle of the range the noble Lord suggests. I agree that we need to make sure that these places are properly staffed. On increases in capacity, as noble Lords know, I am not generally one for blaming the previous Government, but they created 500 new places net in 14 years; we have created 374 in two years.
Lord Garnier (Con)
My Lords, I remind the noble Lord, who I believe is actually interested in this subject, that this is not a zero-sum game and year zero is not 2024. I pointed out to the then Justice Secretary Jack Straw in July 2007 in the other place that, thanks to the Blair-Brown regime creating 3,000 new criminal offences through 65 new Acts of Parliament that affected the criminal law, the prison population increased. What they forgot about was the need to create prison capacity to put all these new prisoners in. When Lord Hurd of Westwell was Home Secretary in 1990, the prison population was 40,000; it is now just short of 88,000. I am not making a party-political point, I promise, but I do find it a bit boring when Ministers in this Government say it was all the fault of the 2010 to 2024 Government and has nothing whatever to do with what happened before. Let me give the Minister a gentle suggestion. His noble friend Lord Woodley, the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, and I earlier this year put forward Amendment 96 to the then Sentencing Bill, which would have allowed a panel of judges to reconsider the imprisonment of those prisoners on IPP sentences. Could he have a look at it and see if he can bring it back? It would take a one-clause Bill, which we could get through this House in 20 minutes—and through the other House in God only knows how long. But we could pass that law to improve the condition of the people my noble friend Lord Clarke has mentioned, and to some small extent reduce the overcrowding of our prisons, which cannot function if they are overcrowded. We just churn people round and round and round. It is an expensive waste of human life.
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I thank the noble and learned Lord. I am interested. I hope I sound interested. I have been interested in all this for a very long time. In fact, I am starting to bore even myself, not just the noble and learned Lord. But I take what he said seriously. As I say, in general I am not one for blaming the previous Government. I absolutely recognise that this has been going on for a long time now and we have not managed to expand the prison estate. There have been successive announcements, but I think we are making some progress in that regard. We are not going to get down to the sorts of numbers that the noble and learned Lord is talking about—he knows that—but we have to make those commitments on prison building. On IPPs, I will absolutely look at the amendment that the noble and learned Lord proposed. Obviously, at this stage, we are working our way through exactly how we do this, and I am sure I will be back before your Lordships at the Dispatch Box before long to set that out. There is one other thing, which I should have mentioned when the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, was speaking. My noble friend Lord Blunkett, who cannot be in his place today, said to me that these sentences had not worked in the way they intended, which is a kind of confirmation of what the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, said.
Lord Faulks (Non-Afl)
My Lords, the Minister referred to the removal of foreign national offenders and how that was to be a priority. I am sure that the House welcomes that, but I did not hear an answer to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson, about the changes in the application of the relevant provisions in the European Convention on Human Rights, which would potentially make it much easier to remove foreign national offenders. Can he tell us when we can expect these changes? Also in terms of changes, one of the problems that we heard a great deal about from his predecessor was the backlog of cases, which of course meant that people were in prison for longer than necessary, often awaiting trial. Can he tell the House whether the proposed changes to trial by jury are still part of the Government’s plans or not?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
Foreign national offenders have the right to appeal their removal, but this Government are already tightening how the right to family life in the ECHR is applied to our Immigration Rules so that it is no longer abused, as part of our immigration White Paper. The Government’s view is that we do not have to withdraw from the ECHR to deliver meaningful change. On the question of trial by jury, we will be discussing the Courts and Tribunals Bill before long, I am sure.
Lord Beith (LD)
My Lords, we have more of our population in prison than most other countries. Will that situation not continue and get even worse, and promote even more crises, until the Government explain to the public that enormous resources are spent building and staffing prisons and that those resources are not being used in the way most likely to reduce reoffending?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I need to be straightforward with the noble Lord. Prison numbers are not going to come down quickly; in fact, they are going to rise. That is why we are building new prisons. A number of noble Lords have asked about reducing reoffending. The Government have done a great deal about reducing reoffending. Indeed, HMPPS had a great deal of support from the previous Government, financially, to build up our capacity for housing and for drug treatment, and my noble friend Lord Timpson did a great deal on the employment front. But I should say that what will not reduce reoffending, in any circumstances, is overcrowded prisons with overstretched staff operating in an environment that is extremely disruptive. If we want people not to reoffend, the way to achieve it is to have highly motivated staff working in a reasonable way, with the support and the facilities that are available, in the way that my noble friend Lord Timpson sought to achieve.
Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Con)
My Lords, the Government’s early release scheme has clearly created a lot of concern among the wider public, so can the Minister provide any data on how many offenders who have been released under this scheme have since been returned to prison? Can he also commit to providing regular data updates on any prisoners who have to be returned to prison after being released early?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
Well, these arrangements are not coming in until the beginning of October.
Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Con)
There have been prisoners released.
Lord Lemos (Lab)
There have been prisoners released at the end of their sentences for a long time. We do publish data on prisoner releases and will continue to do so.
Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I have the privilege of serving on the post-legislative scrutiny committee on the Domestic Abuse Act, and I am reassured by the Minister’s focus on victims. Obviously, we are liaising closely with both the Domestic Abuse Commissioner and the Victims’ Commissioner, and I can assure him that there continues to be a very high level of concern among victims, not least because of the failures of communication in making clear to them, and, quite often, their children, what degree of harm they may be in the way of. I will ask one specific question about the response to breaches of either exclusion zones or restriction zones. Those will be only as effective as the monitoring of, and the responses to, any breaches. If an offender wants to breach, they will breach. What processes are in place to ensure that probation receives timely notification of any breach, and that the police can react swiftly? Will responses to breaches actually keep the victims safe in the moment, or will they simply be identified and acted on retrospectively?
Lord Lemos (Lab)
I pay tribute to the noble Lord for the work he has done on this; we have discussed it many times. On his specific question, I think I have already indicated that, under the way we will be managing probation data, probation officers will know the whereabouts of offenders on tags in as close as possible to real time. At the moment, that is not the case. The key thing in relation to domestic abuse victims is, as I have said, that the way in which they feel safe, and are safe, is if the system—the Probation Service—knows where people are and what they are up to, and can keep victims safe from access by those people. The noble Lord knows that what we have rolled out in DAPOL—domestic abuse perpetrators on licence—has been very successful. We have introduced 2,000 of these and will roll them out across the country by the end of the year. With domestic abuse, it is one thing ensuring that justice is done and getting a trial and so on, but in my experience of talking to domestic abuse victims, the primary thing is that they want to feel safe, and they want their families and their children to feel safe. The way in which we can achieve that is, in large measure, in the short term, partly through the intensive community supervision provisions that we are making. I am out of time—I find it difficult to shut up on this subject—but may I make one final offer to your Lordships? Because we have had a number of questions about probation, I will arrange for an all-Peers presentation on the changes we are making, in particular the intensive supervision model, including in relation to domestic abuse. I want noble Lords to really feel they have understood those things, and then I will be happy to take any further questions.
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Source: UK Parliament Hansard API. Debate ID: 5402164.