Lord Evans of Guisborough (Con)

My Lords, I express my gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Forbes, for bringing this subject before us today. I was shocked to hear many of the incidents that he relayed to us. For the first time in many years, I began to think that perhaps my decision to give up as a councillor back in 2014 was not such a bad one. It is a decision that I have regretted, really, ever since I made it. I served five terms, and I very much enjoyed them. One of the reasons I decided not to continue was that I felt it was becoming acceptable to attack elected members. I felt we were having targets painted on our backs, and it was not a situation that I was prepared to continue to be a part of. When I left local government at Havering Council, I was invited to go abroad to help advise councillors there and see their culture—in Fiji, as it turns out. I was phoned up shortly afterwards by the organisers, who told me there was no space left in Fiji, so in fact they were sending me to Basra—and could I come into the Foreign Office for my kidnap training on Tuesday? I went and did it, and I found councillors there who were very keen on helping their community, but they all constantly accused each other of corruption and all required bodyguards. It was a culture that I really would not want to see developing here, a future culture that we do not want: there was a constant churn, a constant change of members, no learning from previous experience and very little progress for the citizens of that city, quite apart from the elected members. In the little time left to me, I will speak in support of a comment made by my noble friend Lord Udny-Lister about part of this being about the lack of power that councillors now have. People expect us to be able to achieve things and yet, very often, we are just relaying bad news to them. That is creating expectations and then letting them down, which is bound to lead to problems. There is no excuse for bad behaviour, but I remember chairing a planning committee about expanding a sixth-form college in Havering. It was an excellent application, worth £60 million, from the Government. A mass crowd turned up and did not want it. I understood them: if I had lived next door to it, I probably would not have wanted it either. But it was a case of the greatest good for the greatest number—a really good facility, there for the future for all the young people of our borough. So we approved it, and we got a lot of abuse from the people who had come to the meeting. We got accused of corruption. When we had finally cleared the room out, gone away and signed the whole thing off, the Government came back to us just a few months later and told us they were withdrawing the money, so we could not have our sixth-form college after all. We had taken that massive reputational hit for nothing. That is something we want to avoid in future.