Lord Mackinlay of Richborough (Con)

My Lords, I will say a couple of words on Amendment 10 in the name of my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe, which I fully support. The phrase: “The Treasury may by regulations make such provision as they consider appropriate in connection with providing access to banking services”, is not just wide; it is ocean-wide. It is far too wide, and it is without parliamentary consent or any investigation as to what our democratic processes consider to be the right level of banking services and access to banking across this country. I will also say a few words on Amendment 8. I am very pleased that the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, spoke about the Post Office. When I was a constituency MP, I faced—as anyone who lives in any part of this country faced—the closure of banking services, which always caused concern, particularly to older residents. I purposely kept my father, now deceased, away from digital banking because of the risk of scams and of those dodgy emails coming in. He was of perfectly sound mind and very capable, but he perhaps was not as scam aware as younger people are, so I wanted him a long way away from digital banking services—and why should he not stay away from digital banking services? We were always told by the banks that were closing, “Fear not: we have a Post Office network for all that your constituents and customers need to do in terms of access to cash, banking cheques and that more standard stuff”. I do not know about other noble Lords, but I use digital banking—of course I do. However, when faced with cheques, which are a little bit rarer these days than they used to be, I struggle—for obvious reasons—to hold the camera and go up a bit, left a bit, right a bit, down a bit, get told, “It’s not all in the picture yet”, and press the button. I am sure we all share that frustration. Let me leave your Lordships with this about the Post Office: it is not the panacea of everything. Over the last few months, Lloyds Bank has stopped the use of Post Office services to its customers. I do not know why. This is a two-way street: at the banks’ discretion, they can have a relationship with the Post Office or not. For reasons known only to itself, Lloyds has decided not to use the services of the Post Office. For those reasons, I sympathise massively with the noble Lord, Lord Vaux, who now has to make a 100-mile round trip to a bank. No doubt there is a post office nearer than that, but if you are a Lloyds customer, hard luck: 100 miles. This is not about the quantity and texture of tomato sauce in a can of beans, which might lead to officials and statutory instruments; these are fundamentals of life that everybody faces on a daily basis. To allow the extent of this power is a power too far. We see far too much Henry VIII in all legislation, not just from this Government but from the Government I was with over the years. There has been a temptation for this creep to happen, and it must not enter the Bill.