Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)

My Lords, I support the amendment standing in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and of course Amendment 200, which stands in her name and my own. I look forward to the Minister’s response to this debate, because she is now expected to deliver not just political answers but legal judgments. I note that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hermer, is not usually so reticent in making his opinions known, but he seems incredibly bashful when it comes to the Windsor Framework. He has of course been known to have an involvement in Northern Ireland affairs in the past, so I look forward to what the Minister has to say on that. The legislation before us in the latest in a whole series of measures, both primary and secondary, which are affected by the Windsor Framework or protocol. “Windsor Framework” is of course just a new name for what is substantially the Northern Ireland protocol. A few minor amendments were made but it is substantially that protocol, as agreed by the previous Government with the European Union. Section 7A of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, outlined, the conduit or means by which European law takes precedence over any UK legislation, primary or secondary, in over 300 areas covering vast swathes of the economy of Northern Ireland. Let that sink in: when we talk about Brexit and sovereignty, part of the United Kingdom is subject to European law in over 300 areas. Just this past month, we have been debating various issues, including the supply of veterinary medicines to Northern Ireland, some of which may be discontinued because they do not conform to EU standards, causing major problems for animal health. The Government are showing no urgency in addressing this. The Select Committee on which I have the privilege to serve looked at this matter yesterday; I hope that we will get some action. We also looked at the issue of dental amalgam, and now we have this tobacco Bill. In all these issues affecting Northern Ireland, UK legislation is disapplied or cannot apply because of the Windsor Framework/Northern Ireland protocol. Northern Ireland is bound in this area by the tobacco products directive—directive 2014/40/EU—because it is listed in annexe 2 of the protocol. That is where we get the figure of 300 areas of law. Of course, although we can debate all these issues, and Northern Ireland representatives, and others, in the House of Commons and in this place can give their views, at the end of the day the decisions are made by the European Commission. The European Union will decide what happens in part of the United Kingdom, regardless of the views of anyone elected in the UK Parliament or the Stormont Northern Ireland Assembly, of whatever party, or anyone in this House. That should perturb us all. It is not just a unionist concern; it is a concern for any self-respecting elected politician of whatever party that they are not able to make laws for the people they represent. Ultimately, unless this matter is addressed overall, it will have grave ramifications after the 2027 Assembly elections. Article 24 of directive 2014/40/EU states: “Member States may not … prohibit or restrict the placing on the market of tobacco or related products”. It seems to me that, on any reasonable reading of the Bill—as backed up by the former Northern Ireland Attorney-General, Mr Larkin, who has been referred to—it does indeed fall foul of the tobacco products directive. The Government say that they intend it to apply across the four nations of the UK, that they are confident that this is the case and that we should all be assured by that. But they have given previous such assurances, as has been referred to. They told us in very clear terms that the Rwanda Bill, for instance, would apply throughout the United Kingdom and that there would be no loophole in Northern Ireland, but the Northern Ireland courts inevitably struck that down. They judged not only that it was in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights but that it was disapplied in Northern Ireland. It was not just a declaration of incompatibility but a disapplication of the law in Northern Ireland, because it fell foul of Article 2 of the protocol. The protocol reigns supreme. It is the same in other immigration cases and in the legacy legislation. There should be no doubt about the importance and width that the Northern Ireland courts are giving to this legislation. It is very clear: the European Union (Withdrawal) Act makes it absolutely explicit. I ask the Minister to outline exactly what the basis is for the Government’s confidence and assurances—and not just to reassert that they are confident or assured that it complies. What is the basis for these assertions and what will they do if, ultimately, the courts strike the legislation down as far as Northern Ireland is concerned? Will the Minister and the Government give a commitment today that, if, at the end of the day, the courts agree with the judgments or opinions that have been given by learned former Attorney-Generals, they will come back to this House and legislate to override the disapplication? Why do they not adopt the amendments suggested here in this place to reassure everybody that there can be no question or doubt about the legislation’s application across the four countries of the United Kingdom? Why not remove any prospect of litigation or any disapplication in Northern Ireland? This would give some reassurance that the Government are serious about the matter. A few weeks ago in the House of Commons, Secretary of State Hilary Benn said in response to a question that it was Labour’s aspiration to impose the Bill in full in Northern Ireland. What is the position—aspiration, intention, expectation? What about a guarantee through adopting these amendments?